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torerling Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Total posts: 35 Gender: Unknown |
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fairytwixLocation: planet earth Age: 21 Gender: Female |
 Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| lincorp.com wrote: | | fairytwix wrote: | | lincorp.com wrote: | In the latter case, i would include a subject so "いっしょにがんばりましょう but either way, after reading some of your earlier posts, your explanations are pretty good albeit there are typos. I wouldnt be able to explain them any better myself. We should start calling you fairytwix先生。
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haha..please don't mock me...i do thank you for correcting me..after all, this is the "learning japanese" section right? i'm here to learn as well too...  |
Oh no i wouldn't dream of mocking the 先生she might give me detention or worse yet flunk me 
Anyways we should get back on topic or face the wrath of the admins...  |
well...i feel that your either mocking me or patronizing me by continuing to call me "先生, when it is quite obvious from my last post, ALBEIT not mentioned that id rather not be called that..
nweis, torerling also mentioned, in japanese, they rarely include the subject of the sentence or conversation unless it is obscure or difficult to notice. furthermore the form "Verb-ましょうか conveys the meaning "SHALL WE....." it's like saying, 行きましょうか？ or "shall we go?" .... you would find it weird to say "いっしょに行きましょうか、 unless it is under it's in a different context where for example, you are talking to that person over the phone and asking him/her shall we go together?"
you can actually notice these sentence patterns when you watch anime/dramas. and even my japanese friends tell me that they tend to omit the subjects in their conversations as well..._________________ 
gimme some bigbangin lovin
b-b-b-but I love you boy ~ |
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torerlingJoined: 21 Mar 2008 Total posts: 35 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| fairytwix wrote: |
well...i feel that your either mocking me or patronizing me by continuing to call me "先生, when it is quite obvious from my last post, ALBEIT not mentioned that id rather not be called that..
nweis, torerling also mentioned, in japanese, they rarely include the subject of the sentence or conversation unless it is obscure or difficult to notice. furthermore the form "Verb-ましょうか conveys the meaning "SHALL WE....." it's like saying, 行きましょうか？ or "shall we go?" .... you would find it weird to say "いっしょに行きましょうか、 unless it is under it's in a different context where for example, you are talking to that person over the phone and asking him/her shall we go together?"
you can actually notice these sentence patterns when you watch anime/dramas. and even my japanese friends tell me that they tend to omit the subjects in their conversations as well... |
usually in short forms one use おうか, so that may of more use if you listen to drama speech, since they usually do the short forms. And usually our sensei always encourage us to drop subjects when it is coming from context, else it sounds like you're talking kind of stiff and unneccesary.
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fairytwixLocation: planet earth Age: 21 Gender: Female |
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torerlingJoined: 21 Mar 2008 Total posts: 35 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:19 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| fairytwix wrote: | | torerling wrote: |
usually in short forms one use おうか, so that may of more use if you listen to drama speech, since they usually do the short forms. And usually our sensei always encourage us to drop subjects when it is coming from context, else it sounds like you're talking kind of stiff and unneccesary. |
うんんん。。。same here..i think its because, unlike english, japanese language doesn't make use of pronouns in their sentences...even in writing, all you need to do is mention the topic once or twice in your first few sentences, and then you can continue talking without mention the "topic" or "subject" again. Otherwise, it will also sound redundant write? |
It's not that they don't have them, they just don't use them ;P It also depends, if you are good friends you may not even have to mention the topic once.. In short forms even more is dropped, and some times you just end up with two or three word sentences that has a whole lot of meaning ;) funfunfun ;)
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fairytwixLocation: planet earth Age: 21 Gender: Female |
| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| torerling wrote: | | fairytwix wrote: | | torerling wrote: |
usually in short forms one use おうか, so that may of more use if you listen to drama speech, since they usually do the short forms. And usually our sensei always encourage us to drop subjects when it is coming from context, else it sounds like you're talking kind of stiff and unneccesary. |
うんんん。。。same here..i think its because, unlike english, japanese language doesn't make use of pronouns in their sentences...even in writing, all you need to do is mention the topic once or twice in your first few sentences, and then you can continue talking without mention the "topic" or "subject" again. Otherwise, it will also sound redundant write? |
It's not that they don't have them, they just don't use them ;P It also depends, if you are good friends you may not even have to mention the topic once.. In short forms even more is dropped, and some times you just end up with two or three word sentences that has a whole lot of meaning ;) funfunfun ;) |
well...ye, they do have some...but they don't really use it as much as we do in english do they? it's like, when i ask my friends which is better to use to say "you" in japanaese, "anata" or "kimi" they go and say, you might as well say the name of the person you are talking about...hahaha..but ye, i agree tho, they don't really like using it...
what surprises me is how one word, could mean a LOT when translated in english.. it cud even just be by changing the form of a verb...
aaaah...need to revise for my japanese exam actually..hehehe_________________
gimme some bigbangin lovin
b-b-b-but I love you boy ~ |
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lincorp.comJoined: 14 Apr 2008 Total posts: 44 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:03 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| I understand where you are both coming from with the short form, but in my line of work, its all polite or honorifics so the longer and more concise, the better...In drama and anime, the spoken form is usually extremely casual so if your purely learning to understand it then its not an issue but if you plan to ever work for a japanese company then that wont cut it.
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XiaoPauliJoined: 27 May 2007 Total posts: 134 Location: Texas Age: 26 Gender: Male |
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:37 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| fairytwix wrote: | | what surprises me is how one word, could mean a LOT when translated in english.. it cud even just be by changing the form of a verb... |
That's actually a fairly common phenomenon for different languages in general.
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torerlingJoined: 21 Mar 2008 Total posts: 35 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:19 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| XiaoPauli wrote: | | fairytwix wrote: | | what surprises me is how one word, could mean a LOT when translated in english.. it cud even just be by changing the form of a verb... |
That's actually a fairly common phenomenon for different languages in general. |
I speak 5 languages and understand 9, I do not know one that's as extreme as japanese.. ;)
And about the long and short forms that one guy mentions, it's well and OK to know long forms and you can get a long way with them, but to speak in long forms you have to know the short forms, because a lot of longform grammar use shorts in the middle, such as んです つもりです、から、and so on.. and you don't want to work all the time, that makes jack dull boy you know, and if you ever get close to any one, it's better to speak in shorts..
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lincorp.comJoined: 14 Apr 2008 Total posts: 44 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:32 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| torerling wrote: | | XiaoPauli wrote: | | fairytwix wrote: | | what surprises me is how one word, could mean a LOT when translated in english.. it cud even just be by changing the form of a verb... |
That's actually a fairly common phenomenon for different languages in general. |
I speak 5 languages and understand 9, I do not know one that's as extreme as japanese.. ;)
And about the long and short forms that one guy mentions, it's well and OK to know long forms and you can get a long way with them, but to speak in long forms you have to know the short forms, because a lot of longform grammar use shorts in the middle, such as んです つもりです、から、and so on.. and you don't want to work all the time, that makes jack dull boy you know, and if you ever get close to any one, it's better to speak in shorts.. |
Short form is actually easy, its transitioning from short to long that is difficult for me anyways...thats what im trying to get use to right now. Personally i prefer short form cause its much easier to converse in.
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torerlingJoined: 21 Mar 2008 Total posts: 35 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:35 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| lincorp.com wrote: |
Short form is actually easy, its transitioning from short to long that is difficult for me anyways...thats what im trying to get use to right now. Personally i prefer short form cause its much easier to converse in. |
And long forms isn't hard either, it's just a bit different. At the univ we usually do longforms, so we get really used to them, but I won't say they're hard..
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fairytwixLocation: planet earth Age: 21 Gender: Female |
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:49 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| lincorp.com wrote: | | I understand where you are both coming from with the short form, but in my line of work, its all polite or honorifics so the longer and more concise, the better...In drama and anime, the spoken form is usually extremely casual so if your purely learning to understand it then its not an issue but if you plan to ever work for a japanese company then that wont cut it. |
well yes, obviously you have to use a different form of speech whenever your in a workplace...i don't just study the japanese language on its own, im actually studying the society, etc. so, i pretty much know where you're coming from too...
in uni, we are being taught the long forms first..our lets just say the polite way of speaking...then, as we go on, we learn the plain and casual forms of speaking...then in our final year, that's when we do those really polite forms of speaking...im sure you guys know what i mean right??
also, i agree with torerling..i too speak 4 different languages...and none of what ikn0 come close to how short japanese speech is...even chinese isn't like that at all!!! ^^_________________
gimme some bigbangin lovin
b-b-b-but I love you boy ~ |
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lincorp.comJoined: 14 Apr 2008 Total posts: 44 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| Just curious but what other languages to you all speak? And here i thought knowing three languages was pretty good...
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XiaoPauliJoined: 27 May 2007 Total posts: 134 Location: Texas Age: 26 Gender: Male |
| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| torerling wrote: | | I speak 5 languages and understand 9, I do not know one that's as extreme as japanese.. ;) |
| fairytwix wrote: | | also, i agree with torerling..i too speak 4 different languages...and none of what ikn0 come close to how short japanese speech is...even chinese isn't like that at all!!! ^^ |
There's several thousand languages, so it isn't really accurate to make that claim based on a set of knowing less than 10 languages. But there is indeed one obvious language no one's picked up yet that has a similar problem to Japanese: Korean.
| lincorp.com wrote: | | Just curious but what other languages to you all speak? And here i thought knowing three languages was pretty good... |
In the end, knowing the number of languages is irrelevant compared to the proficiency of a couple of important ones and the application of those languages.
But I digress. Back on topic we go.
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torerlingJoined: 21 Mar 2008 Total posts: 35 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| XiaoPauli wrote: | | torerling wrote: | | I speak 5 languages and understand 9, I do not know one that's as extreme as japanese.. ;) |
| fairytwix wrote: | | also, i agree with torerling..i too speak 4 different languages...and none of what ikn0 come close to how short japanese speech is...even chinese isn't like that at all!!! ^^ |
There's several thousand languages, so it isn't really accurate to make that claim based on a set of knowing less than 10 languages. But there is indeed one obvious language no one's picked up yet that has a similar problem to Japanese: Korean. |
Come on, get a grip what do you want for one to be able to comment, to know every effing language spoken on earth and every planet in the milky way, would you be satisfied then? The thing is that I know some languages and I know that there are languages that are harder than japanese for different reasons, and if you actually read what I write in my post you'll see that I say I do not know So how can you say that I even make a claim, seriously, read something before you decide to comment on it.
| XiaoPauli wrote: |
| lincorp.com wrote: | | Just curious but what other languages to you all speak? And here i thought knowing three languages was pretty good... |
In the end, knowing the number of languages is irrelevant compared to the proficiency of a couple of important ones and the application of those languages.
But I digress. Back on topic we go. |
How can you say that the quantity doesn't matter, you know why I like to learn languages? because I think that it is fun, and to get some goodwill if you're in that country, it's a hobby, if you look away from japanese, that I am actually studying at the university.
I know english because I have to use it, and I know others because I had to study them at school, others again I've taken up for fun. Once again you read in on something I've said as a little comparison and blows it up beyond any proportion.
I suggest that you in the future actually at least try to understand the post you are commenting on.. よろしくお願いします。
sorry for being grumpy, but you really stroke my hairs the wrong way...
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