my softsub for zettai kareshi episode 5 - about new subbers

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

You should have offered your subs to TonyDesu. He would have probably edited them up and there would be no problem. The thing that should be kept is consistency among episodes.

It's rude to cut in line, right? Well, that's what you did. You must start from the end of the line and if you think you can go faster then go faster and surpass his speed but you must start from the end of the line. D-Addicts wants committed fansubbers and starting from the beginning is showing you are committed.

If you want to "experiment" then please post them somewhere else.

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

linusi

1.) Gnoss is just that sarcastic. That's how he (she?) expresses things. I think after a while on the forum, we've all been confuzzled by gnoss at least once. lol.

B.) The best way to experiment is to post a link to your subs under the thread for the drama. Many people actually do this, and people would still watch your subs. Trust me when I say that the impatient onces are actually incredibly resourceful. If there ARE subs out there, they WILL find it. So you don't need to worry about lack of feedback.

As for the fansub forum... That specific forum is reserved for people who start with the intention of subbing the entire drama. If you take a look, when a group/person drops a project, the thread (should) gets locked. If you don't start from ep 1, you're obviously not wanting to do the whole project (since I haven't heard of anybody going back to sub earlier eps after subbing the later eps) and so your subs are not allowed.

So, I do encourage you to do fansubbing, and I personally think it's a lot of fun. But as you said, you are a new member of this community, and I think you should probably try following the rules for a bit before deciding that they are bad and try to change them. Establish yourself as a knowledgeable, friendly person and all that. There are older members who lobby for rule changes all the time--or the community would never improve.

Laugh

p.s. You'll find that a lot of people will be / are quite harsh to you. That's because 9/10 new members are trolls / advertisers / idiots, and we just get frustrated at new members in general. That's another reason to establish yourself first in the community before trying to make changes.

p.p.s. Yes, it's 1 and B. Now shaddup. Tongue

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

To those who don't agree with the rule of "subbing must start with episode 1":

I'd say that this rule exists for everyone. Because, if you allow anyone to pick up at any episode they want (even though the project is still currently actively subbed), then you would:

* Cause attrition to fansubbers
--> If you start from eps 1 and you want to do it right and somebody suddenly steal your thunder, you'll obviously be pissed. Not only so, the competition will become very fierce and out of hand. Anyone can simply steal your thunder regardless of whatever effort you've already put. Fansubbers already have enough attrition from insensitive posters. You certainly don't want to add more.

* Encourage unfair competition among fansubbers.
--> It's related to the first point. Imagine you're subbing the final episode. All of sudden, someone sub it before you. What do you feel?

* Encourage low quality subs
--> It's no longer worth your time to edit / QC the sub anymore. All you need to do is to get the subs out of the door. Viewers lose.

* Encourage subtitle thefts
--> Someone might feign to join a fansub group and see some floating softsubs that are being developed for the upcoming episodes. He/she might quit the group and post the unpolished softsubs for those episodes without doing it from the first episode. Fansub groups typically remove files from earlier eps (and thus harder to steal from). So, by allowing anyone to sub from the middle of the episodes, you may allow subtitle theft.

* Discourage formation fansub group
--> Collaboration is less of an incentive. All you need is to get the sub out of the door. Regardless of whether it's of a high quality or not.

* Encourage spam and cause the drift of the main purpose of the forum.
--> Sandbox forum is never a good idea. It encourages spam and cause the drift of the main purpose of why this forum exists in the first place. I've seen so many "free for all" bandwagon forums. The mods usually regret it.

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Alright. I hope you can see it now.

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:51 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0

@linusl

I honesty understand where you're coming from with this. Unfortunately, what you did gave others the sense that you're dishonest. Because you didn't start from the beginning and work things out for yourself, some people consider you a cheat even if you aren't.

My partners and I will also sub a series that is very popular and has a historical connection with another group. Nevertheless, that has nothing to do with us. We're different people and we will produce a different product. Hence, in order to avoid any taint, I have never seen the other group's work. Nor do I intend to. Such a thing would backfire on me. I'd end up unconsciously mimicking them and that would be a waste of my time.

In the end, it's not about the rules. It's about perceptions. Furthermore, people are curious. There's no guarantee your work would have been ignored. Many would have taken a peep because there's every possibility that a new translator could have introduced a new perspective. You might have garnered your own following. As it stands, it appears as though you're leeching from someone else's blood, sweat and tears even though your intention was to provide fans with the next episode as quickly as possible.

If you truly want to do this series, try to start from the beginning. You might find, especially after looking at the Japanese CC, that your work might indeed be different. You're equipped with different vocabulary, different vernacular and a different world view. What gives me pleasure is filling in the blanks. Japanese are notorious for having missing subjects here and missing predicates there. Not to mention the pronoun angst. Maybe a little trust is in order...start by trusting yourself.

Good luck with sorting through this. In many cases, rules exist to maintain the integrity of any organization. The rule requiring each individual or group to begin from episode 1 is no exception.

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:17 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0

I've written a half dozen versions on my thoughts about what linusl has expressed here, and at this point, it's probably just easiest to say: Rookie mistake, no need to get worked up about it. Please read this thread. Not just for the "rules" written therein, but try and understand for the reason for its existence and the basic intent of the guidelines in the first place.

Regarding the sandbox idea.... We aren't completely opposed to new ideas, but it's just not a good one for a bunch of logistical reasons.
The idea of providing some way for rookie fansubbers to test the waters without having to commit themselves to an entire project is an interesting and valid one. We might be able to come up with something else to address that... but sandbox? ehhhh.....

Honestly though, there are a LOT of unsubbed short series and/or SPs that would be great for new subbers to try out and which require little-to-no commitment. And many of them are pretty recent too... If anybody wants any suggestions, I'm pretty sure I can find something for you...

Now you know the rules, good luck with any future projects.

As an aside:
D-addicts isn't just a place where ppl come to up/download torrents and throw their subtitles into a bin for ppl to grab. That's the Pirate Bay. Part of what makes this site unique is that we don't just encourage new subbers to get started by saying "we need subbers". We actively work to think of new ways to get more ppl involved, and, more importantly, how to keep them involved.

It's not perfect, but I'm pretty happy that we've managed to accomodate the explosion in the number of fansubbers with only a minor scuffle or two between groups since the implementation of these rules and guidelines. Pretty damned good considering the number of serious altercations that arose when the numbers of subbers first started increasing a couple years ago. Now those were some nasty fights.... Fear

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0

Gnoss is an female! (just in case any of you were experiencing pronoun angst Sappy mentioned)

If you need any wounds kissed my dear linusl, I can be gentle at times, but to be a fansubber you're going to need some thick skin. Ethidda might be onto something about me being sarcastic, but I wasn't aware that I induced Dr. Seuss emotions... confuzzled?

If you don't continue fansubbing, I think it will be a waste since you have engaged some of the heavy hitters of the community (surprised not to see my sweetheart groinKY here), and there is a fair cross section of them at that. I peeked at your subs and they weren't half bad. You might consider spotting for Tonydesu if you don't have time for full translating.

And actually, I have a confession. I really wanted to see someone try this. Practical challenges to the rules, or laws, are far more productive than the hypothetical mess that you will find on the fansubbing guide thread. I still think it's a good read when you have time, but you've set (or at least enforced... maybe this isn't the first case) precedent.

♡♡ double love

PS The nature, grammar and spelling of this post may have been affected by the drinks my boss bought me at lunch and the giddiness of an unexpected afternoon off.

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:42 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0

From what I have read and that's been a lot @_@ I feel like linusl has only 1 problem