Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0
belleza wrote:
The thing about Michiru's relationship is that she has to hit a "bottom" where she cannot accept the circumstances with Sosuke anymore, and decides to move out. So, in that sense, nobody can make Michiru make that step forward, and she has to consciously put herself over Sosuke.
Hidden:
Ruka and Takeru's approach to Michiru represent divergent reactions that men and women friendships have toward a DV situation, though in their situation, you see a gender reversal.
Ruka, as "male", wants to protect Michuru from Sosuke. Which implies that she's made a definitive judgment upon, in her view, Sosuke as a "threat" (in other words, she's put a label on Sosuke) to Michiru and that Michiru must get away from the "threat." And she sees their domestic violence as a problem that must be solved, and that she must give advice Michiru so that she can avoid this, since it's "common sense" (judgment) that he's a "psychopath" (label).
Takeru, as "female", wants Michiru to change or understand her relationship with Sosuke. Takeru does not assign a judgment on Sosuke, but he sees their relationship as extremely dangerous to Michiru's welfare. In his limited time with Michiru, Takeru tries to facilitate Michiru to go through the process of evaluating her present situation as well as her relationship with Sosuke (much larger issues going on.) He's avoided giving advice and labeling Sosuke in front of her because he knows that Michiru will not open up around company, and therefore will not enter a dialogue whereby she can actually work through her issues. And he doesn't want her to view her friendships and relationships as "either/or" yet.
Neither approach is more correct than the other. But, the problem here is that Michiru has different expectations for Ruka when she was in the house. While it's true that Michiru would have eventually gone back to her apartment, Michiru shows through various parts of the episode that she's unsure whether she can talk to Ruka about this, and already in her mind, her predicament has already formed into "Ruka vs. Sosuke." That doesn't help Michiru work through her issues with Sosuke or resolve to leave him, and it seems that she very much wanted help in that throughout the episode.
My hunch is that Michiru's defensive nature will come out more aggressively through the 2nd half of the show. Because it also prevents Michiru from seeing the pain Ruka is going through, and how far Ruka will go to save her from that bastard.
Also, if Michiru and Takeru start getting closer (again, haven't seen Episode 5 . . . ), it'll be interested to see whether Takeru takes on a truly proactive role in Michiru's DV situation. That is, do we see Takeru remove himself from the role of impartial listener and become a protective male presence to fight against Sosuke. And if he does, how does Ruka adapt? Does she feel it marginalizes the help she gives Michiru, or does it free Ruka to take on a warmer, more affectionate/nurturing presence in their friendship. And in turn, how will it shift Sosuke's perspective.
So, a lot of politics and a lot of mixed messages.
I think we already know that 'rock bottom' in her case will result in a death of someone. ^^; But you're right about Michiru having the Ruka vs. Sosuke kinda mentality (Takeru is the only one everyone seems to be comfortable revealing their real selves to). It's becoming more obvious in episode 5.
sleepyzzz wrote:
In episode 5, after the 'rape' scene when Michiru returns back to the Share House - did anyone notice that Ruka seemed to intentionally hold back from greeting Michiru? Even the camera is set on her just on that extra second. I think it's her trying to restrain the concern she has over Michiru - she doesn't want to appear to be jumping all over Michiru everytime she returns home - honestly, I think she's trying very hard...poor Ruka
Yeah, she's the only one that didn't said 'okaeri'. It's sad that Michiru feels that she has to lie to Ruka and everyone else(well, except Takeru since she feels that he won't judge). Ruka knows it too but yeah, she does seem to be trying hard to hold back on her concerns. Remember what she said at the end of ep4? That in trying to pull Sosuke and Michiru apart, the one to get hurt was herself. That could be one of the reasons and I think everyone agrees with her monologue in the episode, "Michiru, there's nothing else I can do. What's left is to wait for you to save yourself." What I like in the episode is how they show that even though she's the one who said it herself, she still struggle to not be over protective of Michiru. A good example would be the phone incident where she tells Michiru to throw it away(which I find quite reasonable if everyone were to get a heart attack whever the phone rings...). But then again, it's no different from what that DV guy would do. Ruka realizes that the second Michiru hesitantly said 'okay' and stops her. It's apparent that she's angry at herself for a complex mix of reasons here. I'll probably let belleza break it down later. Heheh. =3
belleza wrote:
With that said, I'd really like Last Friends to move away from structuring each episode around Sosuke's "Attack/Stalk of the Week" and to tone down the thriller elements in the storyline. It was very well executed with the first 2 episodes, but the continuation of it without evolving discourse from and about Sosuke keeps the story locked into a Ruka vs. Sosuke "good vs. evil" turf battle (and it tends to turn their voiceovers into a clue hunt rather than private revelation.) That not only presents a caricature of Sosuke as the abuser, but it also creates personality inconsistencies in Juri's portrayal of Ruka (though Eita hasn't had the same issues with Takeru) and diminishes the presence of the other characters. Or to put it another way, Ruka's life isn't just Michiru, and her issues (and the height of her dreams) won't go away even if they were to get together. In creating such a strong rooting interest with her, we sometimes lose sight of the big arc of her life or the greater, jagged puzzle that includes the other roomies. In that sense, Last Friends still plays for me like two different dramas with different narrative arcs (coming-of-age vs. "Lifetime battered housewife" drama) competing for air time.
I think Michiru's story is pretty essential in growing Ruka's and the recent episode have been doing that but yeah, the thriller element should really be toned down. Don't think that's gonna happen though since we're already strapped onto the roller coaster ride from episode 1. We get to see more of Ruka's hopes and dreams through her conversation with Michiru during their 'sleepover'. I'm kinda interested when she mentioned that she wants to go to America to race. Would that be a clue to "how's the sky over there?" in Michiru's letter?
haruko17 wrote:
soo, as of yet (i think). no one has talked about the fact that
Hidden:
ruka went to the hospital for counseling about gender identity disorder. another sign that she might become FtM.
Yes, then there's the whole visit to the doctor thing. Looks like my theory about it being caused by her confusion over her feelings for Michiru got thrown out of the window. ^^; If she already feels that she's in the wrong body since a child(and still feels that way), then the probability is high that she would consider a sex change...which is an even more controversial and harder issue to tackle. I salute the writers for adding gender identity disorder to the mix but they'd need some brilliant writing to pull this off successfully. (They did purposely let the doctor said something like some patients think they are but later they found out after counselling that it's not. Probably to open up the possibilities...) Well, what's really good is we did find out more about what Ruka really feels in this scene. The hardest thing for her is not being able to show her true self to the people around and having to lie to people that she cares about. At the bar/celebration party, she said that there's something that she wants to do after achieving her dreams and someday she would tell her dad. I assume it's about this issue so it would mean that any 'physical changes' won't occur anytime soon. It's a very long process anyway. They would have a lot of counselling sessions first. Still have some mixed feelings over the thought of having Ruka as a transexual... though I'm glad that at least this means that it won't be just focused on just her feelings for Michiru.
Well, I got teary at a few scenes. The one that really got to me was the last one. Michiru breaking Ruka(and my) heart again. I like the ballad(?) version of Prisoner of Love played in the background though it just adds to the sadness. T_T Overall another great episode. I 'll talk about other stuff in another post later. ^^
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 12:18 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0
jigenbakuda wrote:
GoddessCarlie wrote:
AKlRA wrote:
I'll be honest,
I understand Sousuke, not the whole DV part, but guys do tend to be
VIOLENT either physically or mentally. Most guys want to break chairs, cups,
throw things, etc when they are ticked but it's called COMPOSURE. We learn to
let our mental state come first before the physical but guys are more PHYSICAL
naturally, as girls are more sensitive, naturally.
I think this is a load of crap. At least in my experience I'd say that guys are just as sensitive as girls and girls are just as physical as boys. That it is "natural" for guys to be violent is just a huge cop out. Don't try to justify bad behaviour with a chromosome.
Isn't that a bit harsh? In my personal experience boys in general are far more aggressive and violent than ladies. Even if the lady has anger issues (a man with anger issues is worse). Even at young ages, boys fight more, and are more confrontational, as men I know I would prefer to fight another man as opposed to talking out our differences, but thats illegal and I'll get taken to jail, so I conform. Have you ever really hung out with a group of guys that had absolutely no desire to "be" with you? You would see how guys are, lol. Guys are always on their top behavior infront of ladies they want to "be" with. All I'm saying is, in my experience, most of the males I have encountered in my life have been aggressive/violent. Maybe I have been around a special group of gentlemen in my life, lol. But I would say men DEFINITELY want to throw stuff and destroy things when they are pissed, at least I know I do. So I agree with akira.
Also girls are more sensitive naturally, thats why women make great mothers. Its a maternal "instinct" . But there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. There are sensitive boys and aggressive girls... But if you say boys are not more agressive/violent than women, I would be willing to bet, you have never really been that close to that many guys non-romantically (non-romantic from their side of course).
Oh yea, yea, let me add that DV has VERY little to do with violence, its more mental than anything. Violence is in it, but its a mental thing. The mixed messages do more to mess up a DV victim than anything. Its like pledging a frat, they beat you and stuff, but its the mind that is feeling taxed, not the body, the pledging process is one to mess with the mind (although it usually involves violence).
lol, yeah i was just going to say, she probably doesn't have a majority of guy friends.
Besides I'AM a guy, pardon me cuz I could be wrong, but give me some credit for
actually knowing whats up in a guys world. I live in it.
I hate when people insert words in my comments.
I never said guys are genetically altered to BE violent to that of women.
I said they are "naturally" physical rather than sensitive.
Do girls throw a punch at their girlfriends when they have a fight?
No. What do you girls do? You scream and yell maybe, you talk it out.
When guys get in a fight, it's physical. Some guys are less confrontational, so they
are verbal instead.
When guys, albeit if they are not crazy violent, will definately not throw a punch
at their girlfriends because we are once again, COMPOSED.
We have mothers, we understand that women are different.
They are more sensitive so as a guy even though we hate their sensitivity at
times, learn to respect them bceause that is what a guy is supposed to do;
respect their women.
Sousuke doesn't seem like a strong person to me.
He seems like the kind of guy that would just stand there if he
was abused himself. Beating a woman is low for a man because
it represents that they are weak (physically and mentally).
Any guy who takes advantage of a girl or uses physical force on her, is a weak man.
Whatever the case is, I'm just sayin, guys have a natural tendency
to act that way.
Not to sound harsh, okay this will sound harsh but a guy who is more sensitive
than a girl, must either be gay or had been smothered by his mother's love all through
his life. (chill, half joking.)
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 12:23 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0
haruko17 wrote:
soo, as of yet (i think). no one has talked about the fact that
Hidden:
ruka went to the hospital for counseling about gender identity disorder. another sign that she might become FtM.
yeah i mentioned on my first post that I had a suspicion of Ruka being a
hermaphrodite. It could just be a mental issue but I really am starting to think
that it may be the case.
And like I said earlier, it could be a reason why the camera pans to Ruka looking
at her own reflection in disgust, several times throughout the drama.
It may also be a reason why Ruka is so highly disgusted by men.
Perhaps she feels that she is neither male nor female and have no interest
in particularly any gender. The only reason she loves Michiru is because she is
her closest friend.
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:12 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0
AKlRA wrote:
haruko17 wrote:
soo, as of yet (i think). no one has talked about the fact that
Hidden:
ruka went to the hospital for counseling about gender identity disorder. another sign that she might become FtM.
yeah i mentioned on my first post that I had a suspicion of Ruka being a
hermaphrodite. It could just be a mental issue but I really am starting to think
that it may be the case.
And like I said earlier, it could be a reason why the camera pans to Ruka looking
at her own reflection in disgust, several times throughout the drama.
It may also be a reason why Ruka is so highly disgusted by men.
Perhaps she feels that she is neither male nor female and have no interest
in particularly any gender. The only reason she loves Michiru is because she is
her closest friend.
umm, did u mean hermaphrodite as in: a person having both male and female reproductive organs....?
i hiighly dought that is the case with ruka.
im pretty sure her parents would know that sort of thing about her, haha
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:25 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0
haruko17 wrote:
umm, did u mean hermaphrodite as in: a person having both male and female reproductive organs....?
i hiighly dought that is the case with ruka.
im pretty sure her parents would know that sort of thing about her, haha
Actually, you may not know if this is the case. Hermaphrodite may have all female reproductive organs, while aslo having internal or microscopic external male ones. At least, that's what I heard.
But, I would be very surprised if this actually was the case in this series. Dunno... Although, I would be glad if she, following this theory, transformed fully into a woman. Because else having transgender operation for her would be just creepy.
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 3:37 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0
Iatheia wrote:
haruko17 wrote:
umm, did u mean hermaphrodite as in: a person having both male and female reproductive organs....?
i hiighly dought that is the case with ruka.
im pretty sure her parents would know that sort of thing about her, haha
Actually, you may not know if this is the case. Hermaphrodite may have all female reproductive organs, while aslo having internal or microscopic external male ones. At least, that's what I heard.
But, I would be very surprised if this actually was the case in this series. Dunno... Although, I would be glad if she, following this theory, transformed fully into a woman. Because else having transgender operation for her would be just creepy.
Right, that is true.
I watched an episode of HOUSE M.D. once and they had a woman
who had a problem with over flow of testosterone and realized that she has
a small existing organ of a male body part, meaning she is a hermaphrodite.
I confirmed it with my cousin who is a medical student and he said that is possible
to not realize it until after the person hits puberty.
Whether Ruka's parents know are not, is not significant to the fact that it can't be true.
Her parents might know maybe they don't and if they do, it may be a reason why her
father is so understanding and supportive of Ruka. I'm sure Ruka is very sensitive
to that, IF IT WERE TRUE, and it seems like something about Ruka also triggers her
father to act sensitive towards Ruka's feelings.
Remember to consider that this is just my theory.
But it would make alot of sense compared to Ruka just wanting to become male.
She doesn't even act all that manly, despite her hairstyle and her somewhat guyish
way of speaking and protection of Ruka, she is 100% FEMALE to me
no matter what she says or does.
But then again, hermaphrodite maybe a little too strong of a theme for
a Japanese drama.
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 4:36 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0
I guess you guys need to watch the sub version then. She's not intersex(as much as she or everybody know of themselves). Else she wouldn't have gone to seek counseling about gender identity disorder. Talking about how she hated wearing dresses even as a child, how she dislikes her own body and stuff like that. The counseling sessions would be a way for Ruka (and us) to understand herself better. Whether or not she would decide to have an operation or just accept how she is now, I guess we'll find out later.
Quote:
It may also be a reason why Ruka is so highly disgusted by men.
No. She's not disgusted by men. She dislikes being 'touched like that' as she said in episode 4 when she broke down at Takeru's bar. Everyone would. But in her case, it had a more severe impact because of the whole gender confusion issue and the fact that she does not even feel comfortable with her own body. The anger and disgust was partly directed at herself there.
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 4:42 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0
She was also frustrated at the fact that her coach refused to look at her as a "Racer" but merely a woman on a bike that races good. She was frustrated with all of that and that's also why she probably was angry at herself.
_________________ sbk fansubs | yume wa mugendai no musekinin hero ~ oira densetsu no musekinin hero
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 4:45 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0
AKlRA wrote:
jigenbakuda wrote:
GoddessCarlie wrote:
AKlRA wrote:
I'll be honest,
I understand Sousuke, not the whole DV part, but guys do tend to be
VIOLENT either physically or mentally. Most guys want to break chairs, cups,
throw things, etc when they are ticked but it's called COMPOSURE. We learn to
let our mental state come first before the physical but guys are more PHYSICAL
naturally, as girls are more sensitive, naturally.
I think this is a load of crap. At least in my experience I'd say that guys are just as sensitive as girls and girls are just as physical as boys. That it is "natural" for guys to be violent is just a huge cop out. Don't try to justify bad behaviour with a chromosome.
Isn't that a bit harsh? In my personal experience boys in general are far more aggressive and violent than ladies.
(sorry, cut to make my post not so large!)
lol, yeah i was just going to say, she probably doesn't have a majority of guy friends. Besides I'AM a guy, pardon me cuz I could be wrong, but give me some credit for actually knowing whats up in a guys world. I live in it.
I hate when people insert words in my comments. I never said guys are genetically altered to BE violent to that of women. I said they are "naturally" physical rather than sensitive. Do girls throw a punch at their girlfriends when they have a fight? No. What do you girls do? You scream and yell maybe, you talk it out. When guys get in a fight, it's physical. Some guys are less confrontational, so they are verbal instead. When guys, albeit if they are not crazy violent, will definately not throw a punch at their girlfriends because we are once again, COMPOSED.
We have mothers, we understand that women are different. They are more sensitive so as a guy even though we hate their sensitivity at times, learn to respect them bceause that is what a guy is supposed to do; respect their women. Sousuke doesn't seem like a strong person to me. He seems like the kind of guy that would just stand there if he was abused himself. Beating a woman is low for a man because it represents that they are weak (physically and mentally). Any guy who takes advantage of a girl or uses physical force on her, is a weak man.
Whatever the case is, I'm just sayin, guys have a natural tendency to act that way.
Not to sound harsh, okay this will sound harsh but a guy who is more sensitive than a girl, must either be gay or had been smothered by his mother's love all through his life. (chill, half joking.)
Hidden:
My closest friends are guys. I lived in a share house with three guys. I haven't lived with girls but I am one and I have stayed over girls houses. I've seen girls fight and I've seen guys fight. I've seen girls break down and cry and I've seen guys break down and cry.
Girls don't punch when having a fight? Huh! I would argue that i've seen more fist fights between girls than guys. In fact I would argue that YOU haven't been around women much. Girls and guys get just as angry as each other and show it in similar ways. I would argue that most people of sound mind would rather NOT be in a violent situation and actively try and avoid a situation becoming violent.
"natural" implies genetics, and is often used as an excuse "aww, he can't help that he hit her, it's only natural". I would argue that the perceived "violence" of men is because of this very excuse that "boys will be boys" - thus the behaviour is never corrected, and thus the cycle continues. My biggest beef with your statement is really that people use these kinds of statements as an excuse.
We have mothers, we understand that women are different.
How are women different? I would like to think that those who have a caring mother would see them as people not as a gender. The way the genders have been defined are too rigid that most people don't fit neatly into the mould. Most people have femininity and masculinity, in different percentages. Thus Ruka's battle with her identity - she likes things seen as more masculine and thus she can be isolated from society. Her boss can't see past her gender, that she is a person. If genders were absolute she wouldn't be in this position. And does it matter that we "like her as a girl" because if Ruka was a man she would still be exactly the same person.
As for a guy having to respect women, cause that's "what a guy is supposed to do" - well done, that's awesome. Good to know you respect women because you are supposed to not because women are equal to men and should be treated like a human.
DV and violence is a touchy subject. violence is a touchy subject. objectifying women is a touchy subject. I'm sorry to have brought this all up, but sometimes it is better to make people question their views than sit back and watch everything perpetuate itself. How ever, I'm sure that you are going to dismiss everything I have said just the same way I dismissed everything that you have said, so I will drop it.
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:17 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0
I sincerely love the way this drama is sparking so much conversation, outside of the realm of the drama. We are discussing our views on so many subjects. I think this is the reason for this show, to have people discuss things, they would regularly, turn away from/ignore.
_________________
If one sets a trap, is it not the victims fault for falling in?
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:03 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0
jigenbakuda wrote:
I sincerely love the way this drama is sparking so much conversation, outside of the realm of the drama. We are discussing our views on so many subjects. I think this is the reason for this show, to have people discuss things, they would regularly, turn away from/ignore.
Yeap. A lot of interesting insights come from this thread. The show is definitely breaking barriers. =3
Quote:
Thus Ruka's battle with her identity - she likes things seen as more masculine and thus she can be isolated from society. Her boss can't see past her gender, that she is a person. If genders were absolute she wouldn't be in this position. And does it matter that we "like her as a girl" because if Ruka was a man she would still be exactly the same person.
For me, I have no problem with the gender she chooses to be or is. I'd still like her as a person. My only worry is how the show will execute this storyline but I'm pretty sure Juri can handle it. ^^
Suketeru's softsub is out as well(i kinda prefer hers over the other 2 so far). She haven't posted it in her LJ but she normally posts them earlier at http://community.livejournal.com/ryo_watch/ (gotta join first though)
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