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groinkLocation: Hawaii Age: 41 Gender: Male |
 Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:11 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| Missconceptions wrote: | | Why is that so hard to understand? |
It isn't anything to do with understanding. It is everything to do with the Web 2.0 madness. These leachers want to be seen and liked by the Internet community. They want hundreds of people singing their praises. Web 2.0 now gives them this outlet. Sites like Crunchyroll give incentives for people to upload content. In exchange, they receive points ("cr" points, for example) which can then be used to obtain more privileges, such as storage space, faster downloads, and much more. If fansubbing was to totally shut down, there would be NOTHING to upload to these sites. Hence the need for these uploaders to use other fansubbing groups' content as collateral in order to get these benefits.
These streaming sites give out these points in order to increase uploads. They want the uploads so that the number of hits at their site increases. Hits equal advertising co-ops. They can obtain co-op funds from companies like Yahoo! and Google to pay for the equipment and bandwidth. The more hits, the more co-op funds they receive. This is why the fuckheads like Shinji and his buddies at Crunchyroll "look the other way" when it comes to removing content from their site. Removing content affects their hits, which then affects their co-op funds. Fansubbing is indirectly feeding Shinji's empire!
Just like eBay sellers making money off fansubs, streaming sites are just as greedy. And I don't want my works to be a part of it. That's why I encourage ALL fansubbing groups to really enforce their no-streaming-uploads policies, and have these policies affect the leaching community. Do NOT give in to these "wahh, I can't watch XXXX". If the community wants the next episode to be subbed, they should start blasting these streaming sites and force them to cooperate by policing what is uploaded a lot more carefully. I hate being a total dick about it, but this is the ONLY way.
--- groink
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doriangrey64 Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Total posts: 22 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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i would agree with the people who are against uploading it to places where these dramas can be downloaded but if people actually seeded these dramas there wouldnt be a problem. fair enough new dramas are likely to have many seeds however older dramas are not. it took me 4 days to get two episodes of Kinpachi Sensei 6 while having my PC running for nearly 24hrs each day, now thats taking the piss. so if more people seeded there wouldnt b a need for streaming sites.
Also if someone is on a crap connection they may not be able to download such big files. so they resort to streaming sites, that cant be helped. But like groink said he doesnt want it to become popular outside the community because it is bad. i disagree, there is a possibilty that if it becomes popular and known in the west we may actually start to see some official releases of these dramas with english subs (or the language you speak). This will be much better since we would get DVD quality picture and subs. I would buy a release of Kinpachi Sensei, i might of bought one already if it didnt only have japanese subs.
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groinkLocation: Hawaii Age: 41 Gender: Male |
| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| doriangrey64 wrote: | i would agree with the people who are against uploading it to places where these dramas can be downloaded but if people actually seeded these dramas there wouldnt be a problem. fair enough new dramas are likely to have many seeds however older dramas are not. it took me 4 days to get two episodes of Kinpachi Sensei 6 while having my PC running for nearly 24hrs each day, now thats taking the piss. so if more people seeded there wouldnt b a need for streaming sites.
Also if someone is on a crap connection they may not be able to download such big files. so they resort to streaming sites, that cant be helped. But like groink said he doesnt want it to become popular outside the community because it is bad. i disagree, there is a possibilty that if it becomes popular and known in the west we may actually start to see some official releases of these dramas with english subs (or the language you speak). This will be much better since we would get DVD quality picture and subs. I would buy a release of Kinpachi Sensei, i might of bought one already if it didnt only have japanese subs. |
Oh, man... I'm laughing my fricking arse off reading this. This person has absolutely no clue as to what's going on in the land of Asian dramas.
First off, the goal is NOT to become popular in the West. Take YA Entertainment for example. Korean dramas became popular in the West. YAE took advantage and purchased licenses for MANY of the popular shows. And NOW, D-Addicts must shut down most of the torrents because of the cease-desist letters Ruroshin received from YAE. Why do you think Korean dramas on D-Addicts make up less than 1/4th of the total torrents? If a Kinpachi Sensei DVD with English subs were released in the West, you would be FORCED to purchase it because it would be removed from D-Addicts - along with all the other licensed products. Did you even think this through before writing???????
Second, crap connections, loss of seeding, etc.... This is entertainment! Jesus Christ, God or whoever the frick you believe in did not add an 11th commandment saying "Thou shall be entertained." There are hundreds more important things in life than to worry your arse off about not getting seeded. What you're basically doing is making the leeches happy, but at the same time you're adding to the problem long-term. Posting to the streaming sites adds additional exposure to our fanworks that we DON'T want.
And third, THOSE KINPACHI SENSEI VIDEOS CAME FROM KIKU YOU ARSEHOLE!!!! I live in Hawaii, mind you, and I receive much of my Japanese dramas from KIKU. I know the people at KIKU and JN Productions, and they're aware of their subtitled works being scattered throughout the Internet. And for quite a long time, they actually cut DOWN on trendy dramas because their viewership shrunk due to downloading. People like you spreading their shows on largely accessed streaming sites is NOT helping us Hawaiians who depend on KIKU - as well as KFBD and all the other Asian TV stations. Again, you're adding to the problem!
--- groink
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ScottishlassJoined: 17 Dec 2006 Total posts: 31 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| doriangrey64 wrote: | | i disagree, there is a possibilty that if it becomes popular and known in the west we may actually start to see some official releases of these dramas with english subs (or the language you speak). This will be much better since we would get DVD quality picture and subs. |
You never have bought some of the official released DVDs WITH English subs then ... figures. There are a certain percentage of Taiwanese, Korean and Japanese series/movies DVDs available with English subtitles.
They suck most of the time because these DVDs are being produced with the lowest net cost possible. Some subs seem to have been translated with an on-line translator rather than an actual living, breathing translator who might have a BA or MA in English (if we are lucky). Best example is Magical Ring a Taiwanese drama. I bought the official DVD set and have given up on watching it because the English subs just don't make a frigging sense.
As for the question raised here how fansubbers feel about their work being bandied around on streaming sites, esp. with our names up there. It is scary!! And annoying. I have only subbed one jdrama so far, and I didn't even translate the whole series but timed and edited and did spot translations. We specifically chose only to release soft subs so leechers might have a harder time hardsubbing the files first to put them up on any streaming sites. And yet it is done. It is downright scary to see one's names in a file that wasn't supposed to be up there, and was supposed to never be seen in this kind of context. We only provided the soft subs, never an actual complete hardsub. And yet now it looks like we did, adding copyright infringement of media files to the copyright infringement of the spoken word in a script.
We have quit doing subs for the time being. The legal consequences are just too harsh to be facing alone thanks to all those idiots ignoring the *do not stream* request of the fansubbers.
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doriangrey64Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Total posts: 22 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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either way i havent been watching dramas for long so i dont know the whole history you are talking about. but what it seems like to me is that you are saying that you would rather download it for free via fansubs then pay for an official release i.e continue something which is illegal? O_o
you may argue that the subs may not be great or in some cases dub-titles like the Naruto volume that was released by Manga Entertainment recently. but not all subs are poor, if they get enough of a following they can spend more time focusing their efforts on improving these aspects.
well you are lucky to live in hawaii where you have a station that shows such things. in the uk a station like that is non existant.
i have a fair few asian dvds (movies) but i havent seen any dramas here in the UK to buy on dvd.
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nikochanr3Joined: 22 Apr 2005 Total posts: 649 Location: NY Gender: Male |
| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:31 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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If the person doing the subbing doesn't want it streamed, it should not be streamed. PERIOD. The anonymity of the internet has made people not only do things against other people's wishes, but to rationalize it as being ok. (I know you don't want me to stream it, but he is my argument for it). Its ridiculous. If a fansub team does NOT want an item streamed, it shouldn't be, and you are basically being a total ****** for doing it.
As with all these arguments my position is always the same, as a leecher (a happy grateful one but a leecher none the less) my position is ALWAYS the fansubbers position.  100% of the time. Because it's THEIR time and THEIR work.
I always wish just ONE time the people who go against the fansubbers wishes would run into them in pubic. I guarantee in real life if i worked on something as a hobby and someone TOOK it after i told them not to and distributed it there would be very real and very ugly repercussions._________________ Please visit my homepage!  Nikos World
AIM me at Nikochanr3 if you like. I''m bored. |
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doriangrey64Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Total posts: 22 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:37 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| like u said nikochanr3 i also dont agree with someone uploading something if the fansubbing group/person asked if people could not upload it to a streaming site. i dont think thats right if they ignore this.
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ScottishlassJoined: 17 Dec 2006 Total posts: 31 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| doriangrey64 wrote: | | so you are saying that you would rather download it for free via fansubs then pay for an official release? well you are lucky you have a station that shows such things. in the uk a station like that is non existant. i have asian dvds (movies) but i havent seen any dramas here in the UK to buy on dvd. |
Oh I pay for official releases via yesasia. 2/3 of my Asian collection are official DVDs, I just don't watch them on TV but at the computer where I can load the fansubs I have downloaded from the net. Once a drama/movie is released on DVD and I know it is being subbed, I buy the official release. That is why I prefer soft subs to hardsubs. This way I can appreciate and watch my favourite doramas and support the production AND protect/appreciate the fansubbers.
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doriangrey64Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Total posts: 22 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:47 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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thats the thing i would rather watch it on tv sometimes, its more comfortable to sit in my sofa. i do the same for anime, except i just buy the dvd when they are released over here (meaning the uk) at an affordable price. currently anime is way too expensive, in shops anyways. online can be cheaper.
what you could do with those dvds is make copies and add the fansub as a selectable sub on the new dvd so you could watch it on your tv, if you wanted to.
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ArchaenonJoined: 17 Mar 2007 Total posts: 411 Age: 27 Gender: Female |
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critiascJoined: 30 Oct 2007 Total posts: 8 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:31 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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Hmm... but if I were to upload and stream my own subs, so that my own friends can watch it streaming(bad connection) will that be a problem?
Well, I'm not part of any fansub group for that matter.
There isn't any way stream them to my friends and be relatively "safe" at the same time?
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hey9Joined: 18 Jan 2007 Total posts: 134 Gender: Unknown |
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critiascJoined: 30 Oct 2007 Total posts: 8 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:00 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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I'm not sure what is going on now... Well, according to one guy (a mod)
"I don't watch anything here either unless I'm previewing new series for myself. I upload and help out in the forums. I'm just pointing out that you people have no right to complain about a free service.
Bandwidth really isn't cheap at all. Here's the recent statistics of the traffic at cr:
http://www.statsaholic.com/crunchyroll.com
As you can see there has been an ever increasing trend of new users. Every month, Shinji pays for a set amount of bandwidth, if he goes over, the service provider charges pretty harshly for every mb/gb over the limit. The average episode is around 200-300 mb. That means for every user who watches just ONE show, about 250 mb is used up. With a couple thousand users watching multiple shows each day that definitely reaches into terrabytes probably.
Last month he paid about $20,000 ( I think?). To support, you only need to pay $6 and there's probably only a couple hundred of them on this site (way overestimating here). That won't account for nearly 1/4 of the total so come on people. Stop complaining when a college student is trying to provide some sort of help to people all over the world. "
Is that true? Because if that's the case, you have a student paying 20k for freeloaders..
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groinkLocation: Hawaii Age: 41 Gender: Male |
| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:16 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| critiasc wrote: | | Is that true? Because if that's the case, you have a student paying 20k for freeloaders.. |
Hehehee... Check out this article...
| techcrunch.com wrote: | Crunchyroll is a San Francisco based startup that is a sort of YouTube for anime and other mostly Asian video content. The three founders, who asked to remain anonymous, are all employees of HotOrNot and the company operates out of HotOrNot’s San Francisco offices (although HotOrNot has no financial interest in the company, according to the founders).
The site launched in the summer of 2006 and has grown rapidly, particularly since March 2007. Worldwide comscore stats show 1.3 million unique visitors in July, up from 480,000 in March. The company also had nearly 100 million page views in July and is seeing 20% monthly page view growth.
That growth was apparently enough to get the attention of at least one possible suitor, Viacom. A source tells us that the company was very close to selling to Viacom for $10 million earlier this year, but the deal fell through when Viacom realized that owning the site, which contains a lot of copyright infringing content, may have hurt their positioning in the billion dollar ongoing litigation with Google. Crunchyroll refused to comment on the deal.
All video is uploaded by users and has advertising around it. Premium users who “donate” $6 per month to the site get an ad free version and higher quality video. Rumor has it the company is making $75k/month or so in revenue.
Crunchyroll’s business model is unique in that users pay them to view high quality versions of the content, much of which is copyright infringing. That certainly weakens their reliance on the Digital Millennium Copyright safe harbor provision, which protects service providers from liability for content uploaded by users.
The safe harbor provision only applies if the service provider “does not receive a financial benefit directly attributable to the infringing activity.” It is arguable as to whether advertising around copyrighted content is a direct financial benefit, but it is even more difficult to suggest that a direct subscription fee, even if it is classified as a “donation” doesn’t trip the clause. Either way, Crunchyroll is certainly pushing the envelope as to acceptable behavior under the DMCA.
Stretching The Limits Is Often Lucrative
What’s interesting is that some of the worst offenders when it comes to copyright law have ended up doing very well.
ALLOfMP3 continues to stay in business despite being sued for $1.65 trillion by the RIAA. YouTube, the king of infringers, sold to Google for a cool $1.65 billion. Blogmusik managed to land licensing deals and remain in business. Imeem is growing like a weed despite a very chequered past. The list goes on.
Crunchyroll’s pursuit of premium donations is so audacious that it just might work for them. The company says they regularly comply with DMCA take down notices and other requests to have content removed. And they say that in general their relationship with the Anime and other content creators is very good. Some of those content creators have even approached the company and have suggested working together.
In the end, Crunchroll has over a million passionate anime users who come to the site daily to view content. The business model is secondary. Smart content owners will find a way to mine that user base and make more money.
Crunchyroll has not raised any capital to date, but is talking to venture capitalists now. |
Was I right or was I RIGHT????
--- groink
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groinkLocation: Hawaii Age: 41 Gender: Male |
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