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UsagiYojimbo Joined: 28 Feb 2008 Total posts: 84 Location: Debrecen, Hungary Gender: Male |
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torerlingJoined: 21 Mar 2008 Total posts: 32 Gender: Unknown |
 Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| UsagiYojimbo wrote: | | torerling wrote: | | XiaoPauli wrote: | | fairytwix wrote: | | what surprises me is how one word, could mean a LOT when translated in english.. it cud even just be by changing the form of a verb... |
That's actually a fairly common phenomenon for different languages in general. |
I speak 5 languages and understand 9, I do not know one that's as extreme as japanese.. ;) |
I belive all conjugative languages have this "feature". Like Hungarian, for example. |
I do not know hungarian, so I can't speak for it, I would really love to learn a finnish/ugrish or slavic language some time, Finnish is in the same family as Hungarian AFAIK and I know that one finnish word can be a whole norwegian sentence, though the person are fixed, and you have to have objects, so therfore it doesn't become as many meanings as a japanese one can get. Hope I managed to get my point across 
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XiaoPauliJoined: 27 May 2007 Total posts: 134 Location: Texas Age: 26 Gender: Male |
| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| torerling wrote: | | first response |
Heh, my post had no ill intent. I was just responding to the claim by a couple of people stating that they knew of no language which was as extreme as Japanese casual form. I responded by saying that Korean has this trait as well. If I could go back and change my post, I would have probably made it shorter, since my original post could easily be taken out of context.
| torerling wrote: | | second response |
But in general, quantity really doesn't matter. Learning another language is always a fun endeavor, and it can prove to be quite useful in some fields like business or communications. In the end though, quantity is indeed irrelevant. When I say irrelevant, I did not mean that knowing multiple languages is irrelevant. Being a polyglot is definitely advantageous. But the question that I wished to address was what makes knowing 5+ languages any better than knowing 2 or 3 languages? I strongly believe in people going into language learning to strongly specialize in another language instead of weakly specializing in several languages. Kudos to people who know 5+ languages, but the meaning of my comment was to simply state that knowing 2 or 3 languages really well is just as fine in the general scheme of things.
As I said before, I had no ill will when I made my comments. I simply wished to state some facts and my own beliefs, but I did it in a direct way that made it seem like I was being rude when I never intended to be. It appears that we both took our comments way out of context. Peace and love in this thread.  We're all for language learning, after all. Speaking of which, it's been awhile since we had anyone post topic-related stuff in the thread.
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torerlingJoined: 21 Mar 2008 Total posts: 32 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| XiaoPauli wrote: | | torerling wrote: | | first response |
Heh, my post had no ill intent. I was just responding to the claim by a couple of people stating that they knew of no language which was as extreme as Japanese casual form. I responded by saying that Korean has this trait as well. If I could go back and change my post, I would have probably made it shorter, since my original post could easily be taken out of context. |
One of them being me, and you took my quote saying that I said that it were no languages that was that way, when what I said was that I didn't know of any, I've never claimed to be omnipotent, have I?
| XiaoPauli wrote: |
| torerling wrote: | | second response |
But in general, quantity really doesn't matter. Learning another language is always a fun endeavor, and it can prove to be quite useful in some fields like business or communications. In the end though, quantity is indeed irrelevant. When I say irrelevant, I did not mean that knowing multiple languages is irrelevant. Being a polyglot is definitely advantageous. But the question that I wished to address was what makes knowing 5+ languages any better than knowing 2 or 3 languages? I strongly believe in people going into language learning to strongly specialize in another language instead of weakly specializing in several languages. Kudos to people who know 5+ languages, but the meaning of my comment was to simply state that knowing 2 or 3 languages really well is just as fine in the general scheme of things.
As I said before, I had no ill will when I made my comments. I simply wished to state some facts and my own beliefs, but I did it in a direct way that made it seem like I was being rude when I never intended to be. It appears that we both took our comments way out of context. Peace and love in this thread. We're all for language learning, after all. Speaking of which, it's been awhile since we had anyone post topic-related stuff in the thread. |
Once again you miss the point of my post. I know Norwegian pretty well, as it is my mother language, I know English well enough to communicate quite well, (hopefully you see that) And I am learning Japanese, that's the main ones, and that's the ones I use, and the ones I one day hope to make my bread and butter of. That does absolutely not take away from the convinence for me knowing, german, dutch, danish, sweedish, icelandic and so on well enough to read a newspaper or get on the good side of someone that lives in that country, learning languages for something you will use occationally and for fun, and learning for actually working with it is two really separate things, So yes I will say that the quantity will have something to say, as long as you have a base in 2-3 languages..
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XiaoPauliJoined: 27 May 2007 Total posts: 134 Location: Texas Age: 26 Gender: Male |
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torerlingJoined: 21 Mar 2008 Total posts: 32 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| XiaoPauli wrote: | | I have nothing against you, torerling. I can agree that at this stage of our wonderful exchange, we've really missed the points of our original posts. I made my point concerning the first matter, and still strongly disagree with you with the level of relevance on the second matter, but I'll restrain my arguments since I'd rather continue the spirit of the original thread topic. |
So you won't even tell me what point I am missing then... Sorry, to tell you, but if you don't live in the states, it may be convinient to know the languages for the places you go, USA isn't the only place on earth.. Once again sorry for being aggressive, but you really stroke me against the hair here, and I do not have anything against you as a person either, what I do not now I can't have anything against, but we can take this over to pm's if you don't want to discuss it here, I'm just curious over what I supposedly have missed..
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lincorp.comJoined: 14 Apr 2008 Total posts: 44 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:16 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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I think on the second point, he was just trying to tell me that i shouldnt worry about how many languages other people know and in his mind its better to know a few languages really well and not a little of many languages (his opinion)...wasnt quite following the first argument...
either way lets get back to the orignal topic...
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paramayaJoined: 11 Mar 2008 Total posts: 20 Location: Indonesia Gender: Male |
| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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"anata ni deatte watashi no mainichi wa kirakira to kagayaitayo".
Lol, just feel bored cuz i saw nobodys posting (been lurking many days, lol).. Anyone knows when/what month they'll hold jlpt this year (i'd like to take level 4)? This is gonna be my first test, i wonder if i could make it just in time (i mean, is few months of studying sufficient to pass the test?). Anyones taking it as well? Ganbarimasho. Lol
sorry for the rants. Btw, quote above is part of a song being my life theme these weeks titled 'renai shashin (romance picture)'. Okii ni suki da.
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Riee109Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Total posts: 4 Location: Germany Age: 20 Gender: Female |
| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:32 am Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| torerling wrote: | | So you won't even tell me what point I am missing then... Sorry, to tell you, but if you don't live in the states, it may be convinient to know the languages for the places you go, USA isn't the only place on earth.. Once again sorry for being aggressive, but you really stroke me against the hair here, and I do not have anything against you as a person either, what I do not now I can't have anything against, but we can take this over to pm's if you don't want to discuss it here, I'm just curious over what I supposedly have missed.. |
I read your conversation and I can just say that i totally support XiaoPauli's opinion.
And I am not from the USA but from Europe.
Of course it's great to know a lot of language but what is the advance of knowing the basics of several languages but not being really proficient in them.
Wouldn't it be better to be proficient in one language instead of knowing three languages but just their basics?
I've studied French for four years and Spanish for three years but if I now had to choose between my knowledge in those two languages or just in japanese, I would definitely choose my knowledge in Japanese because I'm much more fluent in that language.
By the way, I've heard that finnish is way more difficult than japanese...
| paramaya wrote: | Anyone knows when/what month they'll hold jlpt this year (i'd like to take level 4)? This is gonna be my first test, i wonder if i could make it just in time (i mean, is few months of studying sufficient to pass the test?). Anyones taking it as well?
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In the past years it was held at the first sunday in december. This year that would be december 7th!
Sure that you only want to try level 4? If you already know the basics and keep on studying till december, you even might be able to pass level 3!
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lincorp.comJoined: 14 Apr 2008 Total posts: 44 Gender: Unknown |
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torerlingJoined: 21 Mar 2008 Total posts: 32 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| Riee109 wrote: |
I read your conversation and I can just say that i totally support XiaoPauli's opinion.
And I am not from the USA but from Europe.
Of course it's great to know a lot of language but what is the advance of knowing the basics of several languages but not being really proficient in them.
Wouldn't it be better to be proficient in one language instead of knowing three languages but just their basics?
I've studied French for four years and Spanish for three years but if I now had to choose between my knowledge in those two languages or just in japanese, I would definitely choose my knowledge in Japanese because I'm much more fluent in that language.
By the way, I've heard that finnish is way more difficult than japanese...
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If you had read a bit more close you'd see that I feel confident in 2 or 3 languages, my point as you and pauli don't get is that after knowing these, and concentrating on them, it is nice to know the basics of a couple of other ones, it makes it easier to learn others too. to use your own little point it is better to know three languages good and know the basics of 4-5 more than knowing 2 languages and that is that.. And I have never said that japanese is harder than other languages...
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paramayaJoined: 11 Mar 2008 Total posts: 20 Location: Indonesia Gender: Male |
| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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@Riee109: i didn't know if i could just skip one level and jump to higher levels. well, i'll give it try then, and btw to take jlpt level 3 means i must recognize at least 300 kanjis and have min. 1500 words memorized, right? great, feel more excited, it's just challenging, college stuffs and japanese class. thanks for the info.
@lincorp.com: yup, i know where to contact. i've been searching them recently.
thank you guys for supporting. i'll keep studying next few months and look forward to its registration day. Mata
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paramayaJoined: 11 Mar 2008 Total posts: 20 Location: Indonesia Gender: Male |
| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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Torerling, i know your point. I read whole conversation between you two. Sure it's nice to know/be able to speak many languages, you can get even closer to them 'around' you. Just in my case, i have grandpas speaking different languages, uncles and aunties from different cultures and languages. Although we could just speak one national language (bahasa indonesia: this makes us bilingual naturally), but it's just really nice talking to your old grandma/pa in languages they speak. (in case you don't know, we have not only many dialects but also many different languages originating from different cultures).
maybe ones disagree with me saying those couldn't be FOREIGN languages, but i'll tell you, i can't speak language my grandpa speaks in (that's sure regretable, but i'm still trying sometimes). just the same effort with me dealing with french, deutch, and japanese.
PEACE.
Last edited by paramaya on Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Riee109Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Total posts: 4 Location: Germany Age: 20 Gender: Female |
| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| torerling wrote: |
If you had read a bit more close you'd see that I feel confident in 2 or 3 languages, my point as you and pauli don't get is that after knowing these, and concentrating on them, it is nice to know the basics of a couple of other ones, it makes it easier to learn others too. to use your own little point it is better to know three languages good and know the basics of 4-5 more than knowing 2 languages and that is that.. And I have never said that japanese is harder than other languages... |
And I just said that I've heard that finnish sounds really hard.
That wasn't an accusation at all!
Furthermore I know that you only said that you don't know any language " that's as extreme as japanese.. "
I've actually read all your replies really closely and you said "[...]And I am learning Japanese, that's the main ones, and that's the ones I use, and the ones I one day hope to make my bread and butter of. "
If you really want to do a job, where high language skills in japanese are necessary, then I think you should rather focus on studying japanese instead of the basics of serveral other languages. I really have no doubt that you already might have excellent skills in this language but you can always improve. Especially because the japanese language has so many difficult and specific words...
Well, if you are already able to read the keizai part of a japanese newspaper without looking up a single word, than this of course doesn't count for you.
There is not doubt that being fluent in 3 languages an knowing the basics of 4-5 more is better than knowing 2 languages.
But what if you had the choice between being fluent in 4 languages or being fluent in 2 languages and knowing the basics of 6 other languages?
| paramaya wrote: | | i didn't know if i could just skip one level and jump to higher levels. well, i'll give it try then, and btw to take jlpt level 3 means i must recognize at least 300 kanjis and have min. 1500 words memorized, right? great, feel more excited, it's just challenging, college stuffs and japanese class. thanks for the info. |
The first JLPT I ever took was Level 2, so of course you can skip levels.
The test is multiple choice and to pass it you only need a score of at least 60% (except for Level 1), so it is not that hard at all.
Just try! You've got nothing to loose (just the fee ;) )!
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lincorp.comJoined: 14 Apr 2008 Total posts: 44 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:03 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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Here is a link to some practice tests from previous years. You can use this as a tool to judge which level you should take. Also there is a big jump from level 3 and level 2 so make sure youre ready. Based on the feedback we receive after administering the test every year, most test takers (in the US) complain about the big jump in difficulty. Just an FYI.
http://www.jflalc.org/index.php?act=tpt&id=21
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