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SniperOct Joined: 29 May 2004 Total posts: 13 Gender: Unknown |
 Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:39 pm Post subject: A Ratio-Based Tracker (Banning Leechers) Post Rating: 0 |
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hey guys, Recently I've been disappointed with the d-addicts community because there is a serious leecher problem here. In about 90% of all the torrent I have used I have noticed people just getting to 100% and leaving in just 10 seconds after getting there. These people are called LEECHERS for those who do not know. They give a bad upload rate and leave after getting what they wanted. Now that's not called sharing.
I propose that the tracker become a ratio-based tracker like many other trackers out there. Whoever has a truly bad ratio should simply be banned (ip based). This system ensures that people will share at the very least 80% of what they get.
I am tired of being the only seeder. Sometimes I am waiting for a few people to finish so that they can replace me, but then they just leave. I wouldn't even be surprise that thosesame leechers are the ones always requesting seeders.
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ShaolinMunkyJoined: 19 Mar 2004 Total posts: 437 Location: Los Angeles,Ca Gender: Unknown |
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krysJoined: 13 Jan 2004 Total posts: 135 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:52 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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Yes. I have been dissapointed with d-addicts too. You and me are the only real seeders. All others are filthy leechers. So lets ban them all and do share only among us.
And yes, the noisiest ones are surely the most leecherous of all.
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LittleGreenGrasshopperJoined: 22 Aug 2004 Total posts: 872 |
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:03 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| Sadly, there will always be some bad apples in a barrel. However, the concept of a ratio-based tracker has it's own problems. Take for example, what you described about a peer leaving immediately upon becoming a seed. Who's to say that the person won't come back as a seed later on? I admit that there are a few times when I needed to shut down the PC, but waited the last few minutes for a download to complete before shutting down. Then later on, I ended up seeding at least 5 times the ratio, and responding to seed requests months down the road. Is that to say I'm a leecher then? Anyways, just wanted to say that what you see or assume is not always what it really is.
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mtlandisJoined: 16 Nov 2004 Total posts: 503 Location: Delaware County, PA Age: 44 Gender: Female |
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SniperOctJoined: 29 May 2004 Total posts: 13 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:14 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| krys wrote: | Yes. I have been dissapointed with d-addicts too. You and me are the only real seeders. All others are filthy leechers. So lets ban them all and do share only among us.
And yes, the noisiest ones are surely the most leecherous of all. |
You are being very ignorant about the real issue. When I say I am the only seeder I refer to that particular torrent. The ratio system is meant to hhelp the community, not to destroy it. In fact, sites with ratio based trackers are (or were since the crackdown) very popular. You also fail to understand that current leechers would not be banned by using the current tracker statistics since everyone's stats would start from the beginning and they would only be banned if they don't fix their act. If they get banned they would have no one to blame but themselves.
As to the issue of this proposal not being popuular it is easy to understand why. I mean, we do have a leecher problem so I do not expect most users to look at this and think that it is a good idea. The reality is that the seeder/leecher ratio here is very bad. I bet that if the admins publish it it would be something like .1
Compare that with a ratio based tracker like http://www.puretna.com. Their seeder/leecher ratio is ".64" .1 is not even close.
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pepelepiuJoined: 19 Apr 2004 Total posts: 47 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:30 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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I think the bt protocol already takes into account the "bad" leechers. By bad we usually mean "slow uploaders".. You will automatically "choke" these people (unless you yourself are a leecher, then you will have tot rade with them).
As long your upload is good you will barter packets with people wih good upload as well.. If you mean the "unpopular" torrents, eg., the very old ones, then it is logical that they a re poorly seeded and likely to be worse if the site was closed..
anyway I'm not so sure if the # of people who successfully download a file will increase if you close the site..
(just arguing that side for some reason- on other days I argue that closing the site is good so go figure)
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iceberriJoined: 18 Jan 2004 Total posts: 1538 Location: New Jersey Gender: Female |
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:40 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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This idea has been discussed about a billion times and it has been shot down every time. Ruroshin doesn't like having a closed community which a ratio-based tracker would entail. So unless he changes his mind, this topic is going to go nowhere. 
Perhaps you've had a few bad experiences, but on the whole, d-addicts is pretty good about sharing considering nothing is enforced. Take, for a random example, Winter Sonata, which has been on the tracker for ages, where most of the torrents are still very much alive. If everyone seeded a ratio of "0.1" is there any hope that any of those torrents would still be alive today? For the most part, if there was a large distribution initially, there are usually at least some seeds that stick around months later.
Also, if you take krys's sarcasm seriously, you are being played.  _________________  |
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duckieJoined: 07 Jun 2004 Total posts: 95 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:41 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| For ppl who uses dsl, it's unfair ban the whole isp. I upload my fair share of dramas.
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SniperOctJoined: 29 May 2004 Total posts: 13 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:44 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| pepelepiu wrote: | I think the bt protocol already takes into account the "bad" leechers. By bad we usually mean "slow uploaders".. You will automatically "choke" these people (unless you yourself are a leecher, then you will have tot rade with them).
As long your upload is good you will barter packets with people wih good upload as well.. |
Yes, you are right about that aspect of the bittorrent protocol. However, I belive that you didn't understand what I meant due to the elusive meaning of the word "leecher"
Leecher is a term that is somewhat improperly used. Anyone who has not completed downloading a torrent that they are connected to is termed a 'leech' by the basic terminology of bittorrent. Once your download has completed, and you are now sharing the full file, you are a seeder. A "statistical leech" is someone who has a poor share ratio because they have not shared files after their downloads are complete. They've sucked from others and returned nothing. "Stealing" is a more accurate description of this type.
So you see, a person who is currently downloading a file is a leecher according to the bittorrent definition of a leecher. But a person who gets the whole file and then leaves is a leecher in the popular definition of it. That is, that person stole the file because he didn't give it back to others after getting it. His ratio is below 1:1 It was probably .05
Now that's the leecher problem I am talking about.
As for the old torrent issues, it has already been proven in ratio based trackers that they do get seeded better. why? because there is only so much u can upload in popular torrents. Since everyone wants to improve or maintain their good ratio they choose to seed the popular torrents. The problem ( agood problem to have for the site) is that there are too many seeders on a popular torrent and they are forced to seed old torrents instead. This is actually more true in this site because new content doesn't come everyday and by the 20s here. In oher sites there is a new torrent every minute.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:52 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| iceberri wrote: | | This idea has been discussed about a billion times and it has been shot down every time. Ruroshin doesn't like having a closed community which a ratio-based tracker would entail. So unless he changes his mind, this topic is going to go nowhere. |
You know, this question and a couple others tend to pop up every so often...
I wonder if it would be worthwhile to put up a sticky someplace that kind of outlines and explains d-addicts policies/philosophy on stuff like the ul/dl ratio, sharing movies (although there is a topic for this one already), batch torrents...
....or at the very least, add them in the FAQ, since they are frequently asked... ^_^;;;
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SniperOctJoined: 29 May 2004 Total posts: 13 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:56 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| iceberri wrote: |
Perhaps you've had a few bad experiences, but on the whole, d-addicts is pretty good about sharing considering nothing is enforced. Take, for a random example, Winter Sonata, which has been on the tracker for ages, where most of the torrents are still very much alive. If everyone seeded a ratio of "0.1" is there any hope that any of those torrents would still be alive today? For the most part, if there was a large distribution initially, there are usually at least some seeds that stick around months later.
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Well, you just pointed out what I pointed out. I never said that there never were any seeders. Well, many times there aren't or else there wouldn't be a request every minute. The issue is the quality of the seeder/leecher numbers. I am one of those that keep torrents alive by seeding those requests every now and then. The issue is that people HIT AND RUN all the time. There are a number of people who always seed and then there is a number of people who never seed. they just steal. If they just stay on after they get something for an extra 30 mins or until they have giving 100% back then this community would be very fast. The seeder/leecher number here is like 1:30. One seeder for every 30 users. And not only that, but the seeders are always the same people keeping torrents alive. Now how is that fair? It takes days to get one episode sometimes while u are seeding and seeding all the time.
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LittleGreenGrasshopperJoined: 22 Aug 2004 Total posts: 872 |
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:10 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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| SniperOct wrote: |
Well, you just pointed out what I pointed out. I never said that there never were any seeders. Well, many times there aren't or else there wouldn't be a request every minute. ...If they just stay on after they get something for an extra 30 mins or until they have giving 100% back then this community would be very fast. |
You neglected to point out that some of the reseed requests are for older torrents, in which most of those who wish to download already has, and that it's a whole new group of individuals who has just started that is requesting the reseed. Sometimes, there's a span of months between the latest reseed post and the one before it. As for the community being fast, if that was one of your intentions, you should re-read what Ruroshin has to say about it. The point of D-Addicts is not about how fast one can get the dramas, but rather how many people will be able to enjoy the dramas.
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CarnJoined: 07 Jul 2004 Total posts: 655 Location: at my computer refreshing d-addicts.com >_> Age: 22 Gender: Female |
| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:19 pm Post subject: Post Rating: 0 |
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The point of D-Addicts is not about how fast one can get the dramas, but rather how many people will be able to enjoy the dramas.
Well said, LittleGreenGrasshopper. *wipes away a tear*
Seriously, though, SniperOct..there'll always be people who either live in countries with slower connections or who just aren't in a situation where they can seed long enough to get their share ratio to 1.0. Although I'm frustrated about download-and-run leechers too, and having a closed community would prevent many of the people who want to seed but just can't upload fast enough from enjoying the dramas too.
| SniperOct wrote: | | hey guys, Recently I've been disappointed with the d-addicts community because there is a serious leecher problem here. In about 90% of all the torrent I have used I have noticed people just getting to 100% and leaving in just 10 seconds after getting there. These people are called LEECHERS for those who do not know. |
You know, I was really frustrated about that too..but I also figured out that here at school, I often upload much, much faster than I download..so I'll have a ratio of 2+ when I finish. Sometimes people are left hanging for days where they upload MBs and MBs to new leechers and then finish.
Also, I think if you look at the Seeding and Upload Requests forum you'd be surprised how many people are willing to help people out and seed dramas that they love because they want other people to enjoy them too. =) Sure, there are leechers and lurkers, but there're also the dedicated drama-drugg..er, addicts, and it seem like that's been working pretty well so far. =)
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RuroshinJoined: 05 Dec 2003 Total posts: 2748 Gender: Male |
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